The interview took an interesting and incredibly meaningful turn, and it ended up being one of my favorite conversations with an artist, to date. - By Kristin - 3/08
Icons of Punk: Hi Chris!
Chris Gutierrez: Hey! How are you today?
IOP: I’m great, thanks. How are you doing?
CG: I’m good. Really cold ‘cause were stuck in the middle of nowhere and nowhere is freezing, but otherwise, I’m really good. |
|
IOP: (laughs) Well, good, I am glad to hear that you are doing well. I would like to start the interview by asking a bit about a couple of your pieces. Recently, you wrote something titled ‘Why we Fight’ and before that, ‘The Definition of Punk Rock Is…’ Both pertain to the music industry and how a lot of “fans” take advantage, as well as how many take it for granted. Would you mind explaining what led you to write both of those?
|
CG: I don’t want to start this out by saying I hate everything that I see in this scene, because if that were the truth, I wouldn’t be here. I wouldn’t be a part of that and invest so much of my time, my energy, my heart, and my love into this thing if I thought that it was more bad than good. I think that like anything else, there are good people who rise to the top, and there are bad people who fall to the bottom. It’s trying to find what this thing was originally intended for. People see it as a destination, and it’s not. It’s here to help you through a journey. Its here to make it all makes sense; to make life make sense. We don’t all come with an instruction manual. We don’t all like to sit inside the lines. A lot of us like to color outside of the lines, and go against what is expected of us – what our teachers, parents, churches, coaches, grandparents, and our neighbors expected that we are supposed to be; the expectations and the pressures that they put upon us, and you know? |
Some of us just want to be artists, for whatever that definition means to you. Some of us like to be artists and we don’t like to feel confined, and I think it’s those pressures of feeling confined and feeling like we are wrong for wanting more, or wanting something different is what causes such animosity in a lot of the kids. Whether you would like to admit it or not, this culture of punk rock and hardcore is a youth based culture and there’s a reason why so many people are attracted to it when they’re so young. It’s because they don’t have the coping mechanism and they don’t understand it; but they do seek an outlet for it. They see it only as an outlet, they don’t see it as a springboard platform to help.
People just see it as green mohawks and pink hair, hopping up and down, rushing to the barricade, and getting backstage…and that’s not it. That’s not it. These bands, these songs - they’re a soundtrack to our lives. That’s all. They’re the spoon that feeds the lesson. They’re not the meal, and they’re not the dessert.
| I got into this, obviously, because I like punk rock. I like the music and I like jumping up and down, but at the same time what I realized was the more that I went to these shows, and the more I walked into these venues, it became my home. I realized that I was growing up, and I realized that I was taking things away from these bands and from these speakers. From the people who were selling books and had pamphlets and had an exchange of ideas; an expression. You can take another scene, another genre of music…rarely is such a freedom allowed. Rarely is there another scene or community that says “Hey man, we know you’re weird. We did that. We know that you’re fighting with your family and that you hate the world. That you don’t understand things and you’re frustrated. |
|
You’re feeling all the pressures from your peers and from your teachers, and [dealing with] the boys and girls who taunt you in school. And you know what, where you might not be our friend, you’re welcome here. So come in with all of the other kids who were last picked for the kickball team, because we get it. We all suck, but let’s suck together.” Hopefully we can find some kind of brotherhood in that, and maybe we can even start to love each other. The main thing is to learn how to love yourself. The whole fight of this punk rock scene is the fact that we don’t like what’s being shoved down our throats in the real world. We don’t like the pressures and we don’t feel like we should fit into their rules. We fight and we’re mad and we hate the world. You can’t articulate yourself when you are 14 or 15 years old. So you go to shows and hopefully you learn to love yourself by going to these thing because that’s what this whole thing is all about; to learn to love yourself and to be okay with wanting to be an artist, or living outside that box.
|
Having blue or purple hair, or coloring on your skin, or wearing ripped up clothes? It’s not about that, it’s about the ideas and the passion that you take away from this community, from these shows, from these bands. That’s what it’s about. It’s about seeing the passion in a band who stand on a stage and play for less than gas money. It’s about seeing the passion behind why fanzines are created and no one ever makes any money off of, its understanding why people keep doing it day after day, year after year. If you get that, then you understand what this community is all about. If you don’t understand it, that you still need to look a little bit further and maybe you’re only seeing the surface and the flash, the smoke and the mirrors, and the boys in eyeliner and ripped jeans. |
IOP: That was incredibly well said. In my opinion, I think that to live up to some of the punk rock ideas set forth thirty some odd years ago would be somewhat unrealistic in today’s society, but the ideals could and should be lived up to. Do you feel that there is a lack of that in today’s music?
| CG: There are always going to be people who get into things for the wrong reasons and there are always going to be people who have agendas. Rarely will there be people who are totally idealistic and sincere. Hopefully, by being involved in this community, you learn how to weed out the fakes and see whose hearts and heads are in the right place. I think with this scene, it was a bunch of people who did not want to make music like everyone else. When ‘Rock Around the Clock’ by Bill Haley and the Comets came out it was banned because it was a concern for panic. Looking back at that now, you’re like “That’s the Happy Days theme song!” |
|
People burned their records! It was like the devil recorded it himself. But, it came to conventional wisdom and people went on playing shows. Even Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis and all of these other bands, they were the rebels of their day. I think for some reason they finally managed to put a label on it in the early 70’s when there was this explosion of what punk rock was. And if you talk to any of the people from that era they will tell you that “Punk was an insult. We just considered it Rock and Roll.” But it was more of Rock and Roll ideas taken to an extreme. And what I think is great about this entire thing is that punk rock isn’t a set of rules. It completely snowballed. Somebody made it and who knows when it started? But they made it and started pushing it down a hill. A lot of purists out there tried to stop that ball from evolving and a lot of people say “Oh, I don’t listen to anything past 1988 because music doesn’t have any heart” like its all fake and just bands with eyeliner and tight jeans. If that’s all you see, then you’re not looking hard enough. There are plenty of bands out there that have a lot of heart and who say a lot of meaningful things. Are there bands out there that call themselves punk but that are essentially pop bands? Yeah, sure. Not to discount or to take anything away from them; but I don’t think that they push boundaries. You’re not pushing boundaries if you are not challenging not only convention, but yourself. If you’re not challenging yourself, I really don’t think that you’re thinking outside of the box. If you’re writing 3 chord pop songs about girls and whatnot because you want to make a lot of money, great, more power to you. I hope that works out. There are a lot of shitty bands out there who do a lot worse, but, if that’s what you want to do, fine, more power to you. But don’t fool yourself. You’re not breaking any boundaries and you’re not starting a revolution, so don’t claim to be.
|
I think the definition of “selling out” is so ambivalent, you know? Where does it lie? What is selling out? I know what selling out is to me, but it might be completely different to you. It depends on where your line lies. How much do you feel that you have to compromise yourself until it ends up being a fact of life? And to me, that’s where my line lies. There is some compromise in all art, no matter what you do. If you want to see any type of success or if you want to see…look, sometimes I have to tone it down on the swear words when I do my speaking, and I understand that. What’s the bigger message here? Do I get to say “fuck” twenty six times or do I get to say it two times and get the opportunity to speak to a larger crowd? |
Somebody in that larger crowd might take something out of what I have to say. I’m a little leery when someone uses the term “sell out” and throws it around so easily. Why, because they’re on MTV? There are plenty of bands that aren’t on MTV that are sell outs. There are plenty of bands that play VFW halls that are total sell outs because, to me, all they want are the wrong things. Then there are plenty of bands that get on MTV and use that platform to speak to millions of people and say that it’s okay to be gay, it’s okay to be black and into punk rock, it’s okay to be different. It all depends on how you use it and where your heart is.
IOP: You’re absolutely right. I hate the term “sell out.” I believe that it is completely abused and is an easy excuse for people to dislike a certain band or artist. Having little insight makes it easier for people to throw the term around.
CG: I completely agree with that.
IOP: Are there any specific people who have inspired you along the way? Any bands or artists that you have continually looked to, to provide your soundtrack?
| CG: As far as artists go, I would say the Sex Pistols ‘Never Mind the Bullocks…’ changed my life. I think that what they did, what they said it and how they said it…at the time, it was brilliant. It was beyond brilliant. It was mind blowing, to be honest. I am an old school fan of all that stuff and when I look back…like, when I watch ‘The Filth and the Fury’ it makes me want to get up and create something; to do something real; to break boundaries and try new things that scares the fuck out of people. I watched that for the first time at three in the morning and when it was over I jumped up and wanted to start writing; I wanted to paint something. You know what I’m saying? I just wanted to do something. And now people go around and they bad mouth the punk rock bands nowadays and say “You don’t know anything about anything. We’re the ones who created this.” You have to wonder what the Johnny Rotten of 1976 would say to the Johnny Rotten of today? |
|
What would that dude say? It’s so disappointing to see what he has turned into and I’m not going to call him a sell out or any of that stuff, I’m just going to call it a disappointment. I mean they still do awesome things, like refusing to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame; which really impressed the shit out of me. But this thing with Green Day who, apparently, stole riffs off? It’s like, yo…um, you wanna talk to Chuck Berry about that? If that’s the case, that dude is due some residuals with what he’s done for you. But that album completely changed my life. [Also] Other records like ‘Bedtime for Democracy’ by, The Dead Kennedys, and ‘Damaged’ by, Black Flag. As time progressed, there were other bands that really pushed it and challenged me into what I thought was right.
|
Bands like Propagandhi and Hardcore bands like Endeavor. These are records that changed my life, and changed my outlook on it. Bands like Dillinger Four totally changed it. It become “Okay, punk rock…we get it. But now why? Well, okay. Here’s why: “We don’t agree with the establishment.” Well why don’t you agree with the establishment? “Because it makes me feel this way.” Well, why does it make you feel that way? What can we do to make it better? How do we make ourselves better? How do we make ourselves better and make a better world around us? That’s what I saw in this community and this scene. I got to go to all these shows…the first show scared the shit out of me. I was a little thirteen year old punk rock kid, and it scared the shit out of me. |
IOP: Do you remember what show it was?
CG: It was a local punk rock show and it was this band called ‘The Insane War Tomato’s.
It was a typical little show, but I sensed the community in it and I wanted to know more about it. Things just progressed and I started going more and more. I went to my first hardcore show and when I went I remember seeing on the door “No Beer. No Pills. No Booze. No Smoking. No Fights.” And I was thinking “Wow. I think adults are running this shit.” I remember that even as a kid, thinking “This is what we are supposed to be fighting for.” Once I got into hardcore I was turned on to the straightedge scene, which I don’t really go around and try to shove down anyone’s throats but every now and again I will write something about it because it is a huge part of my life. I don’t go around…you know what? I’ll give you an example. The other night when I was in Maine, a mom came up to me after I had done the speaking. She had brought her daughter out to see me and [when I was finished] she tapped me on the shoulder and said “I really appreciate what you had to say up there” and I said “Thank you very much. That’s very cool, and I’m glad that you enjoyed the show.” She went on with “My favorite part was when you said...” and just as a side in one of the stories I say “I don’t drink. I never have. It never appealed to me. It’s just my thing.” And that’s all I said. I don’t go on these giant straightedge rants about the dangers of drinking and smoking. But she thinks “that these kids need to hear that. They need to hear drug free speech.” I knew what she was getting at and I somewhat agreed with her, but I kind of disagreed with her at the same time. I told her “Here’s the thing, kids don’t want to hear the drug free speech. They don’t need to hear the drug free speech. They don’t need to hear it if they know how to love themselves, [or] if adults made it okay for them to express themselves; if adults made it okay to not dismiss their feelings, just because they are young and in High School.”
| When that little boy turns you down on the playground or dismisses you when it comes time for prom…that shit hurts! Regardless of whether you’re thirteen or thirty nine, it hurts. And when you’re thirteen? That’s one of the biggest things that has ever happened to you. For adults to just dismiss that and say that you’re wrong, that you don’t know what you are talking about because you are just a little kid and you’ll understand when you get older, it only makes kids more frustrated. I understand why kids huff paint and steal their parent’s vodka from the liquor cabinet. I understand why they smoke weed and want to do coke and burn shit. I understand that. I understand why kids go into High Schools and shoot things up. When people told me about Columbine, I was like “Yeah. I get it. What do you guys not know? Are you that stupid? Are you that blind? Do you not understand why kids do it?” These kids hurt so badly and all they want is to be loved and understood and no one takes them seriously. And the thing is, that there are so many broken adults out there these days that have children and don’t give their kids the elements and the components they need to make a coping mechanism. These kids don’t know where to turn and they turn to their teachers or they turn to their friends and everybody just keeps telling them that they’re ugly or they don’t fit in, that they don’t have the right jeans or the right shirt. |
|
And these kids get frustrated because no one will fucking listen to them. All these kids who go out and kill themselves and people are like “Yeah, they were talking about killing themselves for so long.” Well, motherfucker, what does that say? It says that nobody was listening to them! They just wanted somebody to listen and tell them that it’s going to be okay. You would be really surprised with how often I say those words to someone and tears well up. I say these things at my speakings and kids come up to me after, and I don’t know them but, they come up to me and say “You know, I identify with what you had to say because My father this…My mother this…My family this…My school this…and I look at them and tell them “Listen, I understand, man. I know where you’re coming from. I get it. I was a kid just like you in High School. I walked the halls with my head towards the ground, my chin on my chest, wearing my combat boots saying “Fuck the World.” I just wished that I could come in with a gun and kill everybody. But it’s what you take away from that. You could either get beaten down by life or you could say “Fuck you. I’m gonna be better than you.” I don’t come from money. I don’t come from a good family. I come from a broken home with an alcoholic father; rapists who are in prison. I have uncles who are in jail for possession or murder, [as well as] plenty of family who are in jail for being in gangs.
|
Yeah, that’s my lineage, that’s what I come with. But if I can make a little bit of sense out of this world, then so can you. You’re going to be okay. If you tell a kid that they’re going to be okay…holy shit, you should see the piles of letters and emails that I have. I print them all off. Literally, I have shoeboxes full of them, and whenever I get down about what I do and the direction of my life I look at these things and think “Holy fuck. That’s all these kids want.” All they want is for someone to say it’s going to be okay. I have no idea if that answered your question, at all. (laughs) |
IOP: Regardless of whether or not it answered my question, it was great to hear. The question is irrelevant at this point.
CG: You know, a lot of it is that these kids feel like they should hate everything…hate the world. That they should hate black people or gay people. And it’s like, I like a dude and I’m a dude. Not that I’m gay because I’m not. But you’re told that you are going to hell, that it’s bad. Kids believe it and are made to feel terrible for their feelings. These atmospheres, shows, and venues say it’s okay. It’s okay to be who you are and to feel the way you do. That it’s okay to be different. That’s how it all started for me and why it’s so important.
IOP: At this point in your career what is most important to you?
CG: Oh man, there is a lot that’s important. I think that I just need to keep trying to make a difference and to make kids realize that it’s okay to be who you are and to do what you love; to do what’s right for you. To not take anyone’s shit, you know? That and to keep on challenging myself. I don’t want to know a day where I don’t. |
|
|
